Steelers Landry Jones Reality Check?

Discussion in 'Steelers' started by TarlsQtr, Jan 5, 2017.

  1. TarlsQtr
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    TarlsQtr Well-Known Member

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    A lot being made of Jones being flaming garbage, especially this past Sunday (including me). A funny thing happened on the way to the lynching though, his numbers actually were pretty good. Granted, it took a great play by DHB to take a horrendous pick six off the board, but let's not pretend that Ben does not throw awful interceptions too.

    Below is a list of the primary backup QBs for every team at the beginning of this season. How many can you honestly say are better than Landry? I do not mean "has more upside" or "will be better in future years." I mean, who would give us a better chance to win this Sunday in the playoffs if Ben could not go? Are there even ten?

    Drew Stanton, Cardinals
    AJ McCarron, Bengals
    Josh McCown, Browns
    Geno Smith, Jets
    Colt McCoy, Redskins
    Colin Kaepernick, 49ers
    Brian Hoyer, Bears
    Luke McCown, Saints
    Derek Anderson, Panthers
    Mike Glennon, Bucs
    Shaun Hill, Vikings
    EJ Manuel, Bills
    Mark Sanchez, Cowboys
    Chase Daniel, Eagles
    Nick Foles, Chiefs
    Ryan Mallett, Ravens
    Sean Mannion, Rams
    Chad Henne, Jaguars
    Landry Jones, Steelers
    Kellen Clemens, Chargers
    Matt Cassel, Titans
    Paxton Lynch, Broncos
    Matt Moore, Dolphins
    Matt Schaub, Falcons
    Scott Tolzien, Colts
    Dan Orlovsky, Lions
    Tom Savage, Texans
    Brett Hundley, Packers
    Jacoby Brissett, Patriots
    Trevone Boykin, Seahawks
    Matt McGloin, Raiders
    Ryan Nassib, Giants

    My point is not to say that Jones is great, but that backup QBs are backup QBs for a reason. Generally speaking, AT BEST they are going to be the 33rd best QB in the league and many teams have rotten starters. Our expectations are too high. I used to get creamed over at the dumpster fire website for saying over and over that we had one of the best backup QB situations in the league with Batch and Lefty (veterans with a ton of starter experience who knew our system inside out). I still believe it. Where does Landry fit above? What say you?

    I bolded who I would grade above Landry (admittedly, almost no thought put into it) and came up with exactly ten.
     
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  2. HarpoSlim

    HarpoSlim Active Member

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    I agree with your list but I think I would also include Matt Schaub.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
     
  3. Big T
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    Big T Well-Known Member

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    I would add Mike Glennon (who might actually get paid this offseason), Chase Daniel, probably Mark Sanchez and Colt McCoy as well.

    But yes, I get your point. We could do worse than Landry Jones as the backup to Ben.
     
  4. Raleigh Steel
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    Raleigh Steel Well-Known Member

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  5. K Train
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    K Train Administrator Staff Member

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    I agree with 6 of your bolded one....Kapernick, Hoyer, Anderson, Moore, and Cassel

    Every one was a starter in the league for at least one full season, aside from matt moore, but he does still have 28 starts under his belt.

    Foles, Mallet, Mccarron, and Stanton at best provide and equally terrible chance of winning

    I dont really like Mannion, Sanchez, or Brisset being labeled the backups when its either goff/keenum, romo, or Garopollo who are the actual backups. Like you wouldn't not count Aaron Rodgers or Philip Rivers as backup QBs just because they are supposed to take over for Favre and Brees at some point. Or you wouldn't just not Count RG3 as the backup because he was benched in favor of Cousins...etc

    Its a difficult exercise to look at this from a non-upside standpoint because of the varying trains of thought you have when acquiring a backup QB through draft or FA.

    1. Do you want a guy that you can mold into a game manager and may very well only be a career backup?
    2. Do you want a guy that you can hope take over for the incumbent starter?
    3. Do you want a former starter who at one point played at a medium or high level?
    4. Do you want someone who can compete with what you already have?
    5. Do you want someone who has been a backup their whole career and done a nice job in spot duty elsewhere?
    6. Do you want someone you hope some other team will fall in love with and trade you for?

    Looking at your list, i am taking Hundley/Lynch/Glennon just for pure arm talent but thats also because I am at a point where upside matters most to the team. Back when they drafted Dennis Dixon the thing that mattered most was a capable backup that might have some trade value.

    We had it good with Batch and Lefwich...id even include gradkowski in that for a short while he just didnt hold up
     
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  6. TarlsQtr
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    TarlsQtr Well-Known Member

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    The list was not picked by me. It actually came from a Sports Illustrated story written on the eve of the season ranking the backups. I left them in their order but took the numbers out, as I did not want to affect how anyone commenting would rank them. I wanted it to seem "random", even if it was not.

    I felt that the eve of the season was also a good time to set the baseline because starters obviously do change throughout the season for different reasons. That is why those two examples came up. Dak was the starter and Romo hurt, which made Sanchez the "backup." Brady was suspended making Jimmy the starter and Brisset the backup. Your point is fair though.

    Here is where I disagree somewhat. I think it is quite clear why we drafted Landry and what we expect him to be. The entire question is based around the Steelers' situation, so I think it is more than fair to throw aside QBs who look to be starters down the road unless you feel they could also win now. We are in "win now" mode, so we should talk about who would be better at helping us win now rather than 3-4 years from now. Hence, why I asked who you would rather have replacing Ben in the playoff game this weekend.

    Would I love to have a young Rodgers or Rivers type ready to take over for Ben in a few years? Of course. Would I want their rookie versions starting against Miami this weekend? Probably not.

    Quick Edit: If I read your post correctly, there are eleven backup QBs (Counting Jimmy G and Romo) who you would rank above Jones, meaning our backup QB is better than 2/3 of the league's backups. Not to mention, we could surely find a couple of starters Jones is better than.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2017
  7. Statman32
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    Statman32 Active Member

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    The Landry that made the throws in the 4th/OT and I'm fine with as our backup. He looked like a complete dumpster fire through 3 quarters which was frustrating since he's been in the system for 4 years.
     
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  8. TarlsQtr
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    TarlsQtr Well-Known Member

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    True, but A) the offensive line played like crap; B) No Bell (or running game); and C) the receiver/TE/RB on the field with the most catches this season was Eli Rogers.

    All that said, was he really any worse in those three quarters than Ben was against Miami or Buffalo?
     
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  9. Statman32
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    Statman32 Active Member

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    Landry should never be compared to Ben.....The day Landry helps the team win 2 Lombardis then a comparison can be made.

    I watched the game I know the OL sucked, no running game, no AB......But still Landry was terrible through 3 against one of the worst teams of all time. I gave Jones credit for making the plays to win the game. He just looked really terrible through 3 quarters which was frustrating....
     
  10. K Train
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    Well, i listed 6 points but theres clearly grey area between them. I dont think its "quite clear", actually i think it is foggy at best why they drafted landry jones.

    I think maybe its quite clear why he is still on the roster...has proven to be ok from time to time, knows the system better than someone off of the street would.

    Now its a whole other thing to think about why he was drafted. People hyped him up as a first round pick when he took over for Sam Bradford. He put up gaudy stats in that offense, he played in some big game, and while i thought it was absurd to think of him as a first rounder he did pass the eye test.

    I thought Tyler Bray was their guy...Tyler Bray and his family thought he was their guy, Tyler Bray went undrafted. Did they see something in Jones that they thought he could serve under roethlisberger for 4 years and then take over? Eh, maybe, but this is how Rodgers, Garopollo, and Osweiler were drafted. Maybe they also thought they could groom and trade him for a pick to a team that would look at him as a starter (Cousins, Mallet, Schaub). And maybe they thought, at best, he could provide a quality, stable backup for a QB that has battled injuries in his career, which is typically the role of a veteran QB that has been around for a while rather than a rookie...but this is how Charlie Whitehurst was drafted (3rd rounder to backup rivers early in his career with some, but not a ton of upside)

    Anyway, that is a lot of rambling to come to the conclusion that landry jones is "fine". However, the dream for me would be to draft Chad Kelly in the mid rounds and let Jones walk. Roll with Mett next year (or hell, bring in Hoyer or Gabbert as backup). Moral of this whole thread is that except under rare circumstance, if you lose your QB...you are pretty much ******, you just hope the next guy up can keep you afloat temporarily.
     
  11. Blitzburghpete

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    I agree with the sentiment of the OP and some of the posts below. The biggest thing about the "backup" is what are you expecting from him, ie project to start, getting old vet, run of the mill middling sorta guy, game manager etc etc.

    My take on this is what do the successful teams do with their drafting stratergy for their number 1, 2, 3.

    I personally think the ideal model is something like what happened in Green Bay with the the Brett Favre to Aaron Rodgers tranisistion. Ie Draft a Qb 3 to 4 years in advance and have him learn behind the legend to pick up the team later. I said it before in the draft needs thread, i feel Ben is now at that 3 to 4 year part of his career left and now is about time we need to start looking at this.

    Also re my own bashing of Landry Jones, it actually has nothing to do with stratergies, but it's ALL about basic QBacking fundermentals. A fade out of bounds, a missed 5 yard out, a stacked box and he audiabled running plays right into it more times than i can remember, seeing a blitz coming and doing nothing than eating it.

    Also lets remember he put up decent numbers against THE BROWNS. A team that is awful and has nothing to play for but pride. He SHOULD put average numbers up against them.

    For me Jones is a career backup QB. He's at best a number 2 and if we drafted a good prospect i'd have him down at number 3. To me Jones's role right now is someone who will not loose a game for us and guide the team for a game or two. For that job he's perfect.If the Steelers think he is going to be Ben's replacement though, no chance!

    However

    IF he made better throws, read the defence better, than he moves up in my estimation as a possible starter. But i've not seen THAT improvement in the last 2 years. Im not expecting him to be the next Tom Brady or anything but i AM expecting my backup QB to be able to be savvy enough to do the simple things well. If he does that he stays, if not he goes. It's really frustrating as the ability is obviously there, he just needs to play like he did in OT all the time, not just once in a blue moon.
     
  12. K Train
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    Lets say Ben is 4 years away from being done (he might be, he might not be)...and you do draft a QB high and hope they take over at that time. If that happens you run a very large risk of having them either hit free agency like Osweiler or having to pay them starter money to keep them.

    In todays NFL its unrealistic to think you can have a high pick QB sit for 3-4 years before taking over. Theres a reason that Aaron Rodgers was the ideal situation, because it NEVER happens. Having two back to back franchise QBs is an extreme rarity in itself, having a 4 years overlap is nearly unheard of.

    If you are going to draft a QB in the first round pick, i think you almost HAVE to expect them to play by year 2 otherwise you probably have needs elsewhere that can help you much sooner. Quarterbacks are overdrafted as it is, adding to that more by overdrafting when you dont need is even worse.

    Maybe you could argue that guys like Jake Locker, Matt Leinart, Brady Quinn, Blaine Gabbert, Josh Freeman, Christian Ponder, EJ manuel, Jamarcus Russel, and Mark Sanchez should have rode the bench for several years and maybe they would be better...but im just not sure that is the case
     
  13. Blitzburghpete

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    Good points above, and agreed times are changing, however, if not the Green Bay model how do you or anyone else propose we get our next franchise qb after Ben by NOT having a shite year to get high draft pick the following year? Surely you and the Steeler have a plan ? if so what is it to get the next Ben ?
     
  14. K Train
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    Rarely are you given that opportunity.

    Steelers were with Marino to follow up Bradshaw and they passed.

    That said, you dont necessarily have to be terrible to draft a QB. Derek Carr, Russel Wilson, even Andy Dalton are example of non first round pick QBs that have worked out. They may be few and far in between, but theres an awful lot of first round QB flops as well that can set you back way more.

    You probably wont see the a next Ben, though...hes a rare talent.

    Steelers probably wont break the bank for the next high priced FA QB to hit the market, which has been really a rarity. Drew Brees and Peyton Manning the two that come to mind in the last decade.

    Alex Smith had a career revival with KC, you cant rule that kind of situation out (Tommy Maddox), or what about Kurt Warner with the Cardinals, ect...Who is to say that in 5 years the steelers dont look at someone whos been dealt a shit hand like blake bortles and try to revive his career? It could go so many different ways
     
  15. HammerTown
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    HammerTown Well-Known Member

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    I just about groan every time I think about them passing on Marino. The problem I have with Laundry (aside from sub par accuracy) is the throws he makes where you can just tell that he decided ahead of time where he was going to go with the ball whether the receiver was open,or not,or even in triple coverage.
     

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